This file is a thread capture about how Tails got two tails, taken from the newsgroup rec.arts.animatiion. Having done this capture from two sites (USIT and Delphi), there is a chance I missed a message or captured one twice; nevertheless, most if not all the thread is here. This thread was active prior to the advent of the way past cool Sonic mailing list. Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) Team OS/2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!emerald.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!newspump.wustl.edu!trinews.sbc.com!news.mid.net!news.mci.net!darwin.sura.net!news.cc.ucf.edu!pegasus!mb1847 From: mb1847@pegasus (Michel Brassard) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Tails from STH Date: 11 Jan 1995 18:56:41 GMT Organization: University of Central Florida Lines: 3 Message-ID: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pegasus.cc.ucf.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? M.B. Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!elione From: elione@access.mbnet.mb.ca (Connie K. Cho) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 14:39:23 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3f3eur$63h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: access.mbnet.mb.ca In article flee@cse.psu.edu (Felix Lee) writes: >Michel Brassard: >>Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? > >it's a Japanese mythology thing. foxes are magical creatures, and >those with more tails are more powerful. something like 7 tails is >the limit? Nine tails. Nine tailed foxes tend to be shapeshifting, evil spirits that wreak considerable mischief on humans. Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!andrews-cc!drazen From: drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 14:17:16 GMT Organization: Andrews University Lines: 48 Message-ID: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: edmund.cs.andrews.edu In article <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> mb1847@pegasus (Michel Brassard) writes: > >Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? > >M.B. Maybe the same way Charles/Mambo on "Duckman" ended up with two heads? Seriously, it looks like the character design from the video game was simply lateraled over to animation. But it's not an idle question. If I might be allowed to pontificate: [Lecture hall mode on]: It was established this past season that Tails is 10 years old in the Sat AM series. Since it was also established that a) Mobius was taken over by Robotnik when Sonic and Sally were only 5, and b) Sally won't reach the age of majority (18) for two more years [making her a sweet 16], therefore Mobius has been under Robotnik's thumb for the past 11 years, just slightly longer than Tails' entire lifetime. This leaves open the possibility that Tails might be a mutant, as there don't seem to be any other two-tailed foxes about. I don't know whether this has been covered in the comics, but the question of Tails' origin could go one of several ways: 1) His condition could have been caused by Robotnik's poisoning of the city. As a result, he might have been exposed/abandoned as an infant. Someone from Knothole would then have taken him in and he grew up bonding with Sonic as sort of an older sib. 2) Leaving Robotnik out of the picture, his condition could just have been a naturally-occurring abnormality. Abandoned in infancy, etc. etc. Makes for a couple good potential stories, in any event. [Lecture hall mode off] Of course, if this ground was already covered in the comics, I will defer to the "received text." Let me ask someone who subscribed to the comics and I'll get back to r.a.a. Daniel J. Drazen "Remind me to fire my travel agent." "Not the cruise I had in mind, either." Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!use.usit.net!use.usit.net!not-for-mail From: acme@use.usit.net (Erich Schulman) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 11:35:11 -0500 Organization: United States Internet, Inc. Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3f3lnv$1u1@use.usit.net> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: use.usit.net mb1847@pegasus (Michel Brassard) writes: >Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? According to the comic book, Antoine gave his tail to Tails so that Tails would be able to fly. Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) Team OS/2 Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!walt.cs.msstate.edu!andy From: andy@walt.cs.msstate.edu (Andy White) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 20:25:09 GMT Organization: Mississippi State University Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3f4375$av5@NNTP.MsState.Edu> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> <3f3lnv$1u1@use.usit.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: walt.cs.msstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Erich Schulman (acme@use.usit.net) wrote: : mb1847@pegasus (Michel Brassard) writes: : >Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? : According to the comic book, Antoine gave his tail to Tails so that Tails : would be able to fly. I think that was one of many "explainations" sent in by readers (at the company's request). They printed a full page of them. On a related note, the word balloon in this panel of an imaginary scene speaks for itself: "Sonic, meet my cousin, 'Heads!'" Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.delphi.com!not-for-mail From: ESCHULMAN@news.delphi.com (ESCHULMAN@DELPHI.COM) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 19:25:19 -0500 Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3f4h9f$pm2@news2.delphi.com> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.delphi.com drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: >It was established this past season that Tails is 10 years old in the Sat >AM series. Since it was also established that a) Mobius was taken over However, if you look on the box the Tails plushie comes in, you'll see that Tails himself says "I'm almost five years old...." >I don't know whether this has been covered in the comics, but the >question of Tails' origin could go one of several ways: It has been. I've already posted the answer. I'll get the issue number if anyone wants it. Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) Team OS/2 Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 95 22:01:14 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu As someone else pointed out, it comes directly from the video game (well, not quite. They based the comic book on the video game, changing a few things. Then ABC based it's cartoon on the comic book changing a few things of their own. Now the comic book is starting to base their storylines on the cartoon and it comes full circle) So the question arises, why does Tails have two tails in the video game? Simple Reason: The programmers wanted him to be able to fly. In the game, Tails isn't as fast as Sonic, and frequently lags behind if Sonic hits a straightaway. The programmers needed to explain why Tails could catch up and came up with flight as an answer. This also makes it easy to bring Tails back if he "dies" as he just flies back in. So why didn't the programmers choose a bird to be the side kick? Thats where the Japanese Mythology comes in. Sonic is originaly a Japanese game and I guess that the programmers just wanted a Kitsune (Multi-tailed Fox) in their game. Of course, as far as I know, they haven't said a concrete reason on the show (disclaimer: I've only seen a few of the second season shows. I KNOW that it wasn't mentioned in the first season.) and so they could come up with any reason they want to. I like the mutation theory. Of course, we all know the real reason that Tails has two tails...It makes him so damn cute. -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!uunet!gatech!psuvax1!psuvax1!flee From: flee@cse.psu.edu (Felix Lee) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 09:11:41 GMT Organization: Penn State Comp Sci & Eng Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: siberia.cse.psu.edu Michel Brassard: >Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? it's a Japanese mythology thing. foxes are magical creatures, and those with more tails are more powerful. something like 7 tails is the limit? -- Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.ems.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 95 22:23:08 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu This is not in response to your question, but what ever happend to the movement to get a alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog or alt.tv.sonic-hedgehog newsgroup going. Is it just that my server isn't carrying it? Or did it fall through? -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.crd.ge.com!cs690-3!news From: bauerle@erie.ge.com (Ron Bauerle) Subject: Re: Tails from STH Message-ID: Sender: news@erie.ge.com Reply-To: bauerle@erie.ge.com Organization: GE Transportation Systems, Control Engineering References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:53:16 GMT Lines: 22 In article <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu>, drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: >In article <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> mb1847@pegasus >(Michel Brassard) writes: >> >>Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? [...] >I don't know whether this has been covered in the comics, Not that I remember, but another follow-up said that it had - can somebody state which issue, or was it just a letters page exercise? >but the question of Tails' origin could go one of several ways: (deleted) Or maybe two-tailed squirrels are natural to Mobius? RDB Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 13 Jan 95 20:24:46 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu bauerle@erie.ge.com (Ron Bauerle) writes: >Or maybe two-tailed squirrels are natural to Mobius? >RDB Prehaps. But Tails is a fox. :) (Belive it or not, it seems more likely that short tailed squirrels are natural to Mobius. Acording to the Comic Book, Sally is a ground squirrel.) -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!use.usit.net!use.usit.net!not-for-mail From: acme@use.usit.net (Erich Schulman) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 12 Jan 1995 19:33:49 -0500 Organization: United States Internet, Inc. Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3f4hpd$ebu@use.usit.net> References: <3f19l9$nnp@news.cc.ucf.edu> <3f3lnv$1u1@use.usit.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: use.usit.net acme@use.usit.net (Erich Schulman) writes: >mb1847@pegasus (Michel Brassard) writes: >>Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? >According to the comic book, Antoine gave his tail to Tails so that Tails >would be able to fly. >Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) >Team OS/2 It's in comic issue No. 16 (Nov.). There are no page numbers, but that answer appears on the second page of "Sonicgrams" about two-fifths of the way down the first column, and "Sonicgrams" in that issue is at the back of the comic. Erich Schulman (KTN4CA) Team OS/2 Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.camosun.bc.ca!freenet.victoria.bc.ca!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!um157 From: um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter) Subject: Re: Tails from STH Message-ID: <1995Jan15.095935.466@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Sender: news@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (News Manager) Reply-To: um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Shooter) Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 09:59:35 GMT Lines: 15 In a previous article, bauerle@erie.ge.com (Ron Bauerle) says: >>>Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? Don't be silly. Tails is NOT a squirrel. He's a fox. A Kitsune to be exact. Japanese fox spirits are multi-tailed, ranging from just a couple up to 7 (max) and the more tails they have, the higher rank they have. I personally advise finding a book of Japanese mythology, where you will find out the rest of the interesting things about Kitsune. I certainly won't go into it all here. Shooter. -- Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!fox From: fox@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox) Subject: Re: Tails from STH Message-ID: Organization: Bushy-tailed Critters of America References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 23:50:15 GMT Lines: 13 jpegnato@vt.edu (Jeffrey Pegnato) writes: >As far as the show goes, both Tails and Sally are a foxes. (as is her >father) So her father is a fox. Does that means she is necessarily one? What if her mother was some other species? :) Or perhaps foxes in this world have anywhere from 0-2 tails? -- ----- Fuzzy Fox ----- fox@netcom.com ----- http://mikey.convex.com:8080/ ----- "I'm always trying to expand my...uh...you know, list of...words that I know." Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet From: jpegnato@vt.edu (Jeffrey Pegnato) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 15 Jan 1995 19:07:13 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 25 Message-ID: <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jpegnato.async.vt.edu X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article , pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) says: >Prehaps. But Tails is a fox. :) > >(Belive it or not, it seems more likely that short tailed squirrels are natural to Mobius. Acording to the Comic Book, Sally is a ground squirrel.) This is VERY sad. I can't believe all of these inconsistencies that have occurred between the comic and the series!!! As far as the show goes, both Tails and Sally are a foxes. (as is her father) Unfortunately, the comic artists/writers don't pay any attention to the show, and vice versa. This creates a long series of posts which basically say there IS NO common ground between the comic and weekly series. I have no buisness commenting on the comic (since I've never seen it) but I do like the new season's episodes and hope that the story line continues as strong as it has so far. The show this season runs just like a soap opera with one show relying on the last for plot points (if you missed some episodes you could get very lost as to what is happening) Oh well, this is the price we pay for poor communication... *** Everyone needs to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer. *** jpegnato@vt.edu Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH From: ray.rooney@dscmail.com (Ray Rooney) Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!dscmail!ray.rooney Distribution: world Message-ID: <1.14916.3043.0N27ED92@dscmail.com> References: <1995Jan15.095935.466@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 02:46:00 -0640 Organization: DSC/Voicenet * Ivyland, PA * (215) 443-9434 Lines: 21 um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter) says: U>In a previous article, bauerle@erie.ge.com (Ron Bauerle) says: U>>>>Does anybody know how Tails from the Sonic series ended up with two tails? U>Don't be silly. Tails is NOT a squirrel. He's a fox. A Kitsune to be >exact. Japanese fox spirits are multi-tailed, ranging from just a couple >up to 7 (max) and the more tails they have, the higher rank they have. >I personally advise finding a book of Japanese mythology, where you will >find out the rest of the interesting things about Kitsune. I certainly >won't go into it all here. No, 9 is the ultimate number. In fact, there was an animated feature film about this in the sixties - "The Fox With Nine Tails" (Japan 1968) - in which the title character is a sort of anti-Christ. The nine-tailed fox is an old part of Japanese lore. --- þ OLX 3.01 00-0000 þ Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 15 Jan 95 19:34:54 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu jpegnato@vt.edu (Jeffrey Pegnato) writes: [Deleted for Security Reasons] >but I do like the new season's episodes and hope that the story line continues >as strong as it has so far. The show this season runs just like a soap >opera with one show relying on the last for plot points (if you missed some >episodes you could get very lost as to what is happening) >Oh well, this is the price we pay for poor communication... >*** Everyone needs to believe in something, > I believe I'll have another beer. *** >jpegnato@vt.edu Oh, well thank God for eppisodes like the one that aired yesterday (1/14) that have no ties to any of the other eppisodes, are broken up into two fifteen minute stories, so we don't have to try to follow even a half-hour plot, and require almost no brain power to watch. :) (Sniff, sniff. Do you smell that? that's sarcasm.) This writing this season seems a little inconsistent. Sure they'll have continuing plot lines that build a continuing story, but then they'll turn around and make an eppisode broken down into two fifteen minute shorts, which seem to be targeted at a much younger audience than the rest of the show. (IMHO, it doesn't help that Antoine is usually a central character in the shorts, but that is a purely personal gripe on my part.) Due to problems with tv reception, I missed much of the first part of this season. Just my luck, I ended up seeing mostly the shorts eppisodes. I was affraid that this show was going the direction of _The_Adventures_of_Sonic_the_Hedgehog_ (syndicated). As for communications problems between the comic people and the show people, they are starting to resolve some of that. The comic finally changed Sally's coloring to match the show (and even added the vest from this season). The plotlines of the comic are also slowly approaching the quality of the show. As for Sally being a fox, have they ever specifically mentioned it on the show? I know they didn't in the first season. -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 16 Jan 95 05:37:36 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu fox@netcom.com (Fuzzy Fox) writes: >jpegnato@vt.edu (Jeffrey Pegnato) writes: >>As far as the show goes, both Tails and Sally are a foxes. (as is her >>father) >So her father is a fox. Does that means she is necessarily one? What >if her mother was some other species? :) >Or perhaps foxes in this world have anywhere from 0-2 tails? >-- >----- Fuzzy Fox ----- fox@netcom.com ----- http://mikey.convex.com:8080/ ----- >"I'm always trying to expand my...uh...you know, list of...words that I know." So it specifically said that her father was a fox? (Geez, I wish I hadn't missed so much of this season.) I know you can't go by the fact that Tails calls Sally "Aunt Sally" because he calls Bunnie "Aunt Bunnie." (Unless you want to throw in even more crossbreeding, Fuzzy. :) -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!andrews-cc!drazen From: drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 17 Jan 1995 14:16:45 GMT Organization: Andrews University Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.andrews.edu> References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: edmund.cs.andrews.edu In article pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) writes: "Snively, bring me the Deletor Ray!" > >So it specifically said that her father was a fox? (Geez, I wish I hadn't >missed so much of this season. I know you can't go by the fact that Tails calls >Sally "Aunt Sally" because he calls Bunnie "Aunt Bunnie." (Unless you want to >throw in even more crossbreeding, Fuzzy. :) > This last point is too good to let slide. I've been cobbling together a Sonic story in my spare time, and one of the things I realized was probably never explicitly stated in either the toons or the comix. It seems (to me, at any rate) natural for Tails to address the female characters as "Aunt...." Just as Sally and Bunnie refer to Sir Charles as "Uncle Chuck", though technically he's only uncle to Sonic. You have to remember that the Knothole gang have all had their families disrupted: seeing their real relatives coming out of the wrong end of the roboticizer. So it would be only natural for them to cobble together a relationship that resembles a loose family more than a resistance organization. As I have Bunnie put it: "We all lost our real kin, so we have to be kin to each other. It helps keep us going." Daniel J. Drazen Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 17 Jan 95 16:35:33 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: >This last point is too good to let slide. I've been cobbling together a >Sonic story in my spare time, and one of the things I realized >was probably never explicitly stated in either the toons or the >comix. It seems (to me, at any rate) natural for Tails to address the >female characters as "Aunt...." Just as Sally and Bunnie refer to Sir >Charles as "Uncle Chuck", though technically he's only uncle to Sonic. Exactly. By most calculations, Tails was born after Robotnic's take-over. The poor kid probably never had anything that even resembles a natural family life. Actually, that would make a good story: What happend to Tails' parents? >You have to remember that the Knothole gang have all had their families >disrupted: seeing their real relatives coming out of the wrong end of >the roboticizer. So it would be only natural for them to cobble >together a relationship that resembles a loose family more than a >resistance organization. As I have Bunnie put it: "We all lost our real >kin, so we have to be kin to each other. It helps keep us going." >Daniel J. Drazen Just makes it harder to determine the species of some of the more ambiguious characters. Some are easy, but others, like Sally, are rather hard. During the first season I had used the "Aunt Sally" phrase to prove that she's a fox (with a very short tail, but still) Then the comic book comes along, saying she's a ground squirel (there's still a tail problem with that) and then I hear Tails use the phrase "Aunt Bunnie" and my argument about what species Sally is vanishes in a puff of logic. -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!yale!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap!pgettle From: pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 17 Jan 95 22:40:15 GMT Organization: Clemson University Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap.clemson.edu drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: >OK, I've been fighting the temptation to say this, but I can't hold back >any longer: >[Drooling fanboy mode on] >I think Sally's a fox no matter what her species! Schwing! Rrrrrrrrrawww! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well, DUH. :) >Seriously, I think only Nala in The Lion King has more appealing eyes. >[Drooling fanboy mode off] >Where was I? Oh yes, the series. I don't know that the writers of the >comix regularly compare notes with the writers of the show(s), or what >kind of continuity manual they might be working from (I'm sure that a >number of contributors to this thread, myself included, would be only >too glad to supply detailed information). Keep in mind that, according >to one studio insider, the continuity manual for the characters and >settings of the Disney series "Gargoyles" runs something like 45 pages! >Daniel J. Drazen I was thinking along the same lines. Especially this season, a continuity manual would almost be manditory. As for the comix writers comunicating with the show writers, I doubt it. -- Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!andrews-cc!drazen From: drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 17 Jan 1995 22:26:23 GMT Organization: Andrews University Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu> References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: edmund.cs.andrews.edu In article pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul Gettle) writes: > >Just makes it harder to determine the species of some of the more ambiguious >characters. Some are easy, but others, like Sally, are rather hard. During the >first season I had used the "Aunt Sally" phrase to prove that she's a fox (with >a very short tail, but still) Then the comic book comes along, saying she's a >ground squirel (there's still a tail problem with that) and then I hear Tails >use the phrase "Aunt Bunnie" and my argument about what species Sally is >vanishes in a puff of logic. > OK, I've been fighting the temptation to say this, but I can't hold back any longer: [Drooling fanboy mode on] I think Sally's a fox no matter what her species! Schwing! Rrrrrrrrrawww! Seriously, I think only Nala in The Lion King has more appealing eyes. [Drooling fanboy mode off] Where was I? Oh yes, the series. I don't know that the writers of the comix regularly compare notes with the writers of the show(s), or what kind of continuity manual they might be working from (I'm sure that a number of contributors to this thread, myself included, would be only too glad to supply detailed information). Keep in mind that, according to one studio insider, the continuity manual for the characters and settings of the Disney series "Gargoyles" runs something like 45 pages! Daniel J. Drazen Path: news2.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!walt.cs.msstate.edu!andy From: andy@walt.cs.msstate.edu (Andy White) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 18 Jan 1995 18:59:19 GMT Organization: Mississippi State University Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3fjoe7$qjv@NNTP.MsState.Edu> References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: walt.cs.msstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote: : Just makes it harder to determine the species of some of the more ambiguious : characters. Some are easy, but others, like Sally, are rather hard. During the : first season I had used the "Aunt Sally" phrase to prove that she's a fox (with : a very short tail, but still) Then the comic book comes along, saying she's a : ground squirel (there's still a tail problem with that) and then I hear Tails : use the phrase "Aunt Bunnie" and my argument about what species Sally is : vanishes in a puff of logic. Well, I kinda think she's a chipmunk--but as for the tail thing, maybe she lost her tail in an accident (maybe the same one that de-tailed Antoine?) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!news.crd.ge.com!cs690-3!news From: bauerle@erie.ge.com (Ron Bauerle) Subject: Re: Tails from STH Message-ID: Sender: news@erie.ge.com Reply-To: bauerle@erie.ge.com Organization: GE Transportation Systems, Control Engineering References: <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:49:16 GMT Lines: 28 In article <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu>, drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: >[Drooling fanboy mode on] > >I think Sally's a fox no matter what her species! Schwing! Rrrrrrrrrawww! > >Seriously, I think only Nala in The Lion King has more appealing eyes. > >[Drooling fanboy mode off] Back on: :^) Well, Babs Bunny often has them too :^) And I liked the green eyes of the girl mouse (darn, forgot her name) from "Once Upon a Forest". Hmm, come to think about it, that's probably what's so attractive about toon furries: their large expressive eyes... Anyway, my main reason for this follow-up: if only the comic book would stop drawing Sally's nose with that dash of blue in it. Yes, I know about the blue-to-better-highlight-black deal in comic books (e.g., hair), but it's not necessary here - all she needs is a white spot to denote reflectivity (as done in the ads in the comic for the Princess Sally miniseries comic). RDB Path: news1.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!news2.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pirates.cs.swt.edu!news.swt.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: POKEEFE@AOAMH4.SSW.DHHS.GOV (PAULA O'KEEFE) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails on STH Date: 20 Jan 1995 08:12:29 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 23 Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu "What happened to Tails' parents?" I can't shake the feeling that there's a really touching scene here we'll never see. Y'know, set it up with his parents scolding him about always running around with that daredevil hedgehog, how he'll get in trouble or hurt or worse, so he sneaks out without their knowing. While he and Sonic are out adventuring, Swatbots march in and torch the place. Hours later, Sonic and Miles (can't stand that silly nickname!) head home...Sonic, of course, gets there first, sees the devastation, makes a good guess as to the fate of the kid's family, and tries to keep him from seeing it. ("Whoa, better not go in there, big guy..." ) Followed by Miles reacting in shock and horror and Sonic resolving to look after him from now on. ("It's not safe here. We'd better go." "Where? *snif* Where can we go now? Nowhere's safe." "No sweat, you'll be safe with me.") --I've always had the feeling that they were together some time before the founding of Knothole, and that for awhile Sonic was the only family and support Miles had. But it's no surprise to me that everyone in Knothole seems to regard the kid as an adopted baby brother and all-around favorite. (Given a chance, I'd do the same! =O) --POK Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!andrews-cc!drazen From: drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails on STH Date: 23 Jan 1995 16:42:58 GMT Organization: Andrews University Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3g0mai$qs5@orion.cc.andrews.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: edmund.cs.andrews.edu In article POKEEFE@AOAMH4.SSW.DHHS.GOV (PAULA O'KEEFE) writes: > [Tails plot deleted] > --I've always had the feeling that they were together >some time before the founding of Knothole, and that for >awhile Sonic was the only family and support Miles had. >But it's no surprise to me that everyone in Knothole seems >to regard the kid as an adopted baby brother and all-around >favorite. (Given a chance, I'd do the same! =O) --POK > Myself, I've always nursed the idea that a younger Sonic, while on a surreptitious trip to Robotropolis, witnesses Tails' parents abandoning him as an infant, just before their own capture. Sonic brings the foundling back to Knothole to raise -- remember, Rosie is supposed to be there to supervise the zoo. Parallel to that would be a Dumbo-type story of Tails' discovering what two tails are good for. BTW, when did the name change from Miles Perour ( X-P ) to Tails? I'm compiling my own Sonic FAQ and this'll probably come up again. Daniel J. Drazen "The very things that were holding you down are gonna carry you up and UP and UP!!" Dumbo Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!walt.cs.msstate.edu!andy From: andy@walt.cs.msstate.edu (Andy White) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails on STH Date: 23 Jan 1995 19:02:55 GMT Organization: Mississippi State University Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3g0ugv$eah@NNTP.MsState.Edu> References: <3g0mai$qs5@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: walt.cs.msstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Dan Drazen (drazen@andrews.edu) wrote: : BTW, when did the name change from Miles Perour ( X-P ) to Tails? I'm : compiling my own Sonic FAQ and this'll probably come up again. 1. It's Miles Prower, not perour. 2. It was at the same time that he was introduced, in the video game Sonic 2. "Tails" was given as his nickname. Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH From: ray.rooney@dscmail.com (Ray Rooney) Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!dscmail!ray.rooney Distribution: world Message-ID: <1.15102.3043.0N27EE17@dscmail.com> References: <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 20:29:00 -0640 Organization: DSC/Voicenet * Ivyland, PA * (215) 443-9434 Lines: 18 drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) D>Where was I? Oh yes, the series. I don't know that the writers of the >comix regularly compare notes with the writers of the show(s), or what >kind of continuity manual they might be working from (I'm sure that a >number of contributors to this thread, myself included, would be only >too glad to supply detailed information). Keep in mind that, according >to one studio insider, the continuity manual for the characters and >settings of the Disney series "Gargoyles" runs something like 45 pages! The series people used the comic as a launching point. There was no continuity to speak of. Where do the comic people get their instructions? I asked that question and they told me SEGA! Sally's vest? Sega wanted it. --- þ OLX 3.01 00-0000 þ Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH From: ray.rooney@dscmail.com (Ray Rooney) Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!nova.voicenet.com!dscmail!ray.rooney Distribution: world Message-ID: <1.15104.3043.0N27EE19@dscmail.com> References: <3fjoe7$qjv@NNTP.MsState.Edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 21:22:00 -0640 Organization: DSC/Voicenet * Ivyland, PA * (215) 443-9434 Lines: 32 andy@walt.cs.msstate.edu (Andy White) sez: A>Paul Gettle (pgettle@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote: >: Just makes it harder to determine the species of some of the more ambiguiou >: characters. Some are easy, but others, like Sally, are rather hard. During >the >: first season I had used the "Aunt Sally" phrase to prove that she's a fox >(with >: a very short tail, but still) Then the comic book comes along, saying she's >: ground squirel (there's still a tail problem with that) and then I hear Tai A>: use the phrase "Aunt Bunnie" and my argument about what species Sally is >: vanishes in a puff of logic. A>Well, I kinda think she's a chipmunk--but as for the tail thing, maybe >she lost her tail in an accident (maybe the same one that de-tailed >Antoine?) The thing to remember is that not all chipmunks and squirrels have long fluffy tails. Also, note that the central characters aren't those you'd find in a U.S. park. Hedgehogs and pangolins aren't Ameri-centric species. Sega was looking for the different angle. Bunny and the rest were cobbled up by the American comic people. As a result we are looking at a hodge-podge and trying to extract some logic from it. It wasn't born of logic so people are beating their heads against a brick wall. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. --- þ OLX 3.01 00-0000 þ Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.camosun.bc.ca!freenet.victoria.bc.ca!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!um157 From: um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter) Subject: Re: Tails from STH Message-ID: <1995Jan20.031314.12351@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Sender: news@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (News Manager) Reply-To: um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter) Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada References: <1.14916.3043.0N27ED92@dscmail.com> <1995Jan15.095935.466@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 03:13:14 GMT Lines: 25 In a previous article, ray.rooney@dscmail.com (Ray Rooney) says: > um157@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter) says: >U>Don't be silly. Tails is NOT a squirrel. He's a fox. A Kitsune to be > >exact. Japanese fox spirits are multi-tailed, ranging from just a couple > >up to 7 (max) and the more tails they have, the higher rank they have. >No, 9 is the ultimate number. In fact, there was an animated feature >film about this in the sixties - "The Fox With Nine Tails" (Japan 1968) >- in which the title character is a sort of anti-Christ. >The nine-tailed fox is an old part of Japanese lore. Urp. You are right, and I screwed up. I think I will have that foot with thousand island dressing, thanks. What's worse, I KNEW that. And I still screwed it up. I'm getting old. That's got to be it. And I've still got a year and a half before I hit 30.... Shooter. -- Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet From: jpegnato@vt.edu (Jeffrey Pegnato) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 20 Jan 1995 23:39:31 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3fphjj$78i@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3f3dlc$3ik@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <3fbrp1$8uh@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3fgjgd$88p@orion.cc.an <3fjoe7$qjv@NNTP.MsState.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jpegnato.async.vt.edu X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article <3fjoe7$qjv@NNTP.MsState.Edu>, andy@walt.cs.msstate.edu (Andy White) says: [stuff about Sally deleted] >Well, I kinda think she's a chipmunk--but as for the tail thing, maybe >she lost her tail in an accident (maybe the same one that de-tailed >Antoine?) There is no authoritive answer as to Sally's species! However... I believe she is a vixen for 3 reasons: 1)her father is a fox. As Fuzzy Fox mentioned, there could be some X-breeding involved with her mother, but that sort of thing usually doesn't happen in Royalty. (purity of the family line) (I believe this story is taking place in a future Earth, but I won't discuss that here) 2)Her short tail could be explained by her age...In "Drood Henge" Sally is 16, and the show made a big deal that she has not "come of age" (turned 18). Therefore, she just might not be full grown 3)if you were going to create a sexy girl for Sonic, what better species than a fox(vixen)? ;) ...I love this show... *** Everyone needs to believe in something, I believe I'll have another beer. *** jpegnato@vt.edu Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!seminole.gate.net!larry From: larry@gate.net (Larry Durham) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails from STH Date: 24 Jan 1995 21:23:19 GMT Lines: 38 Message-ID: <3g3r47$sol@tequesta.gate.net> References: <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: seminole.gate.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ron Bauerle (bauerle@erie.ge.com) wrote: : In article <3fhg6f$klf@orion.cc.andrews.edu>, : drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) writes: : >[Drooling fanboy mode on] : > : >I think Sally's a fox no matter what her species! Schwing! Rrrrrrrrrawww! : > : >Seriously, I think only Nala in The Lion King has more appealing eyes. : > -------------->>> ~~~~ <<<<--------------- : >[Drooling fanboy mode off] ^^^^ here, stupid! :) : Back on: :^) : Well, Babs Bunny often has them too :^) And I liked the green eyes of : the girl mouse (darn, forgot her name) from "Once Upon a Forest". Hmm, : come to think about it, that's probably what's so attractive about toon : furries: their large expressive eyes... : Anyway, my main reason for this follow-up: if only the comic book would : stop drawing Sally's nose with that dash of blue in it. Yes, I know : about the blue-to-better-highlight-black deal in comic books (e.g., : hair), but it's not necessary here - all she needs is a white spot to : denote reflectivity (as done in the ads in the comic for the Princess : Sally miniseries comic). : RDB I know! More sexy as hell cartoon characters! Crysta (Ferngully) Fifi la Fume (Tiny Toon Adventures) Jasmine Belle Ariel (****) Path: use.usit.net!news.usit.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!andrews-cc!drazen From: drazen@andrews.edu (Dan Drazen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation Subject: Re: Tails on STH Date: 23 Jan 1995 16:42:58 GMT Organization: Andrews University Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3g0mai$qs5@orion.cc.andrews.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: edmund.cs.andrews.edu In article POKEEFE@AOAMH4.SSW.DHHS.GOV (PAULA O'KEEFE) writes: > [Tails plot deleted] > --I've always had the feeling that they were together >some time before the founding of Knothole, and that for >awhile Sonic was the only family and support Miles had. >But it's no surprise to me that everyone in Knothole seems >to regard the kid as an adopted baby brother and all-around >favorite. (Given a chance, I'd do the same! =O) --POK > Myself, I've always nursed the idea that a younger Sonic, while on a surreptitious trip to Robotropolis, witnesses Tails' parents abandoning him as an infant, just before their own capture. Sonic brings the foundling back to Knothole to raise -- remember, Rosie is supposed to be there to supervise the zoo. Parallel to that would be a Dumbo-type story of Tails' discovering what two tails are good for. BTW, when did the name change from Miles Perour ( X-P ) to Tails? I'm compiling my own Sonic FAQ and this'll probably come up again. Daniel J. Drazen "The very things that were holding you down are gonna carry you up and UP and UP!!" Dumbo